Date: 01/28/2015 3:36 AM Title: No Regrets
Wow, this was a heart breaker. I can see this happening in the Abrams universe, since that Spock is IMO not as emotionally mature. TOS Spock would have said kaiidith( hope I spelled that right) and done what is logical. He could have his cake ( though not the kind he wanted ie. kids with Kirk) and eaten it too (kids after Kirk in the second half of his life). After all, he will outlive him. That would be better since then he wouldn't be alone. Also TOS friends would not have deserted Kirk. In case I haven't made it clear, I really like your story. It was well written and provocative, in a good way. I also agree not everyone wants or needs to have kids.
I agree, the Spock of TOS wouldn't have abandoned his Jim; neither would have Jim's crew. I figured this story disregards STID and no one has really experienced what it would be like for Jim to die.
I got that you liked the story. Didn't even think otherwise. It's meant to be a heartbreaker and very likely to cause people to take sideS. I don't mind lively debate if no one is attempting to burn me at the stake. in fact I thrive on people's challenges because it helps me be a better writer.
Thank you for reviewing!
Date: 01/26/2015 8:27 PM Title: No Regrets
I had an ex who thought and taught that having no kids was selfish even though yr had no idea why my Kid sister took that path. He also taught our kids the same nauseous theory.
your portrayal of Jim was spot on he made the right and honest choice. Spock had not learnt that you cannot always have everything in one person and you have to live with the results of your primary choice. I think that Jim's bequest makes sense if there is no other in the world that matters you give the all that matters to you. The sad thing is Spock is not happy but Jim is. Sometimes the greatest gift is to walk away.
You're right that in order to be happy, you have to be able to tell yourself the truth, no matter how painful. If a person is unable to do that, then they are likely to be miserable. I think Spock will eventually get to that point, but he wasn't there at the time of this story.
Thanks for taking the time to review!
Date: 01/26/2015 12:11 PM Title: No Regrets
I like this story. This sure is a different approach to the whole children-topic.
I just don't think that Bones would abandone Jim. He sure would tell him what he thinks about the whole thing in his usual way, but he would never desert Jim.
Thank you. It is a very different approach. I tend to find a lot more stories where Jim or Spock (whoever is hesistant) becoming very into being parents. I wanted to switch it up a little.
Thinking about it, you are right that it is unlikely that Bones would abandon Jim. Then again there may have been mitigating factors. I never explored why Bones was willing to "crucify" Jim for not wanting to have children. I have a feeling that Bones had an initial bad reaction and hadn't recovered by the time Jim left the Enterprise. But like I said, I didn't explore that route too much.
Thanks for reviewing!
Date: 01/26/2015 2:37 AM Title: No Regrets
I applaud you for writing a story on this topic that is not happily ever after and for following the premise to its logical conclusion. I also appreciated your unselfish Kirk who values Spock's happiness so much that he would choose it over his own. I like this characterization of Kirk.
But like plyushka, I felt there was a contradiction at the hert of this story. If Spock was happier with children than he could ever be with Kirk and without children, then why was he so filled with anger and hatred toward Kirk? He certainly didn't seem happy at all in this story. It also seems to me that if Spock wanted children and Kirk didn't, Spock would have been the one to initiate the breakup. Perhaps that's a minor point. But it just seems an odd dynamic. Kirk seems happier and more content than Spock; his happiness stems from thinking Spock is happy, yet Spock isn't happy at all. So was it all a misunderstanding?
Thanks for writing this compelling and challenging story.
There is a contradiction is that the story is being told from Jim's perspective. He sees Spock as being happy because in a way, he is. However being happy with your life does not mean that you do not have regrets and/or anger about your past. When we finally see Spock and Jim interacting on a one on one basis these moments are when Spock is seeing Jim for the first time in over 15 years and when Jim is dying. Neither moment is pleasant because unlike Jim, Spock never allowed himself to come to terms with the split. In his mind, if Jim hadn't been "so afraid" he would have had children with Jim. This does not mean that Spock does not love his wife or his children with her any less; it just means that he was not prepared to deal with the onslaught of confusing and conflicting feelings he felt for Jim. The reason why Spock didn't break up with Jim instead of the Jim breaking up with Spock is that Spock thought that Jim would eventually understand the "logic" in having children. Some people hold on to others because they think that because this person is their "soulmate" they will come to realize what they want is what their partner wants (in this case, Spock believed Jim would begin to want children because Spock wanted children. It never occurred to Spock that some people would believe it to be logical to not have children).
The hatred itself was bred by a feedback loop within the Enterprise as a whole. The ship turned against Jim and Spock's anger was fed by the hatred. The problem was that no one ever purged it because they had a convenient absentee scapegoat (i.e. all the problems are due to Jim's cowardness. Spock wouldn't have applied to be transferred, Jim wouldn't have left, and Spock wouldn't have been broken hearted if Jim had not allowed his "fear" to rule him).
As for Jim being happy... it is more of a bittersweet happiness. He knows that Spock is his soulmate, but he knows they are in two very different camps of thought. He saw the issue before it became apparent to Spock and was attempting to "cauterize" the wound before it became infected. This leaves him more at peace with his decisions, but it also leaves him sad that he could not give his beloved what Spock wanted most in the universe. However, unlike the crew of the Enterprise, instead of dwelling on the sadness and pain, he purges it by doing things like making the scrapebooks. He made some really bad decisions by not confronting the issue earlier in the story, but he tried his best to do what he thought was right.
Does that make sense?
Either way, thank you for the review and the chance to stretch my brain! ;D
Date: 01/26/2015 1:48 AM Title: No Regrets
I hope you find this constructive but there is an inherent problem with this and I will try to explaim as best I can. To begin, let me state that in my opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with chosing child-free life. Nothing at all. Yet, in this story this is what happens.
Jim and Spock break up because Jim does not want children. Spock believes this is because Jim is afraid to have kids. First question is, have they not melded?
Second... Jim leaves Spock and the Enterprise and everything behind because he wants Spock to find happiness. Spock tells him that he is happy but he does not sound like it. I am not sure a happy person would still be so terribly mad at an old flame for the break up.
Third, if Jim's goal was Spock's happiness, what he did when he died (and I am not a fan of that bit at all but that's your story), pretty much ensured that Spock would be feeling guilty for the rest of his days. That's awfully vindictive for someone that just wants their ex's happiness, don't you think?
That's most of it.
I found your words constructive, thank you!
But to answer your questions or address your concerns:
1. They had melded in the past, but it was not a deep meld. Spock was respecting Jim's privacy and they were "dating" in humans terms.
2. Believe it or not some people are angry when they are confronted with an old flame, especially when they haven't dealt with the feelings they have with that person. Spock actually is happy, but he is also being confronted by Jim's impending death, despite the fact that it is not stated in the story.
3. In Jim's mind, he's leaving everything to Spock and his family because he cares. He doesn't see it as being vindictive. What's written in his will is summarized at the end. Jim finally gets the chance to explain himself, but is not intentionally trying to hurt Spock. If it comes off as being overly vindictive I'll edit the last bit, but it isn't purposeful. If you are single and have no family, who would you leave your worldly belongings to? A friend and their family.
Thank you for giving me something to think about and pointing out areas I need to hammer out! ;)
Date: 01/26/2015 12:32 AM Title: No Regrets
What a painfully realistic story. I respect Jim so much for not trying to be something he wasn't just to please the person he loved. Having children is a serious thing and only if you truly want to be a parent should you have children and not because others think you should or to make someone else happy. I truly resent his so-called "friends" for not supporting his choice and deserting him. They deserve to be wracked with guilt for the rest of their lives. What a gem!
Thank you! I'm happy I managed to convey what I wanted to without making the story seem too unrealistic. I agree with you about Jim's friends. I understand Spock would be unhappy at first but I would have hoped that he would have realized why Jim broke up with him. Apparently, he was unwilling.
Thank you so much for reviewing!
Date: 01/25/2015 11:05 PM Title: No Regrets
I am very sad after reading this, and I feel kind of hollow with the way it ended, but I appreciate the realism you attached to it, and that when you do truly love someone, their happiness does indeed mean more than your own and you would not think twice about sacrificing something to gain that for for them. Thank you for sharing!
I agree with you, it has a very hollow ending. I wanted to leave it open ended because it allowed the reader to come to their own conclusions. Does Spock now allow himself to remember the good times he had with Jim or does he allow the bitterness to continue to haunt his heart?
I'm glad the realism carried through and the message that sometimes when you truly love someone, it means letting them go; especially if what you have will be poisoned by your differences in opinions. I'm glad I was able to makes Jim's happiness for Spock appear realistic.
Thank you for reading!
Date: 01/25/2015 10:12 PM Title: No Regrets
I like how you took that approach with Jim and Spock clearly wanting different things and not just miraculously changing one another to fit those desires. In reality, you can't change people no matter how hard you try, and kids are a big deal... big conflict in a lot of relationships.
Good for you! :)
Thank you! People sometimes don't realize how big of a deal having kids is for people. They assume everyone wants to have them and actually get angry when some people don't want to have them. Spock, unfortunately, is one of those people in this story.
I'm glad you liked the story and thank you for your review.