Date: 05/04/2017 8:31 PM Title: none
Oh my goodness. I wrote a review here for this essay in 2009. That was almost 10 years ago. I just got your response now and I feel so embarrassed. Don't get me wrong, my views haven't changed about how I feel about these two or homosexuality either. It's how I expressed my feeling about it. You have to understand I was a newbie. English wasn't my first language, and I seriously didn't pay much attention when writing a proper sentence. My writing I believe has become more mature over time. At least I hope so. Re-reading this piece still holds the same thoughts we all have about love in general. It doesn't matter what you have between your legs. Love is love, and why should we question it. It's just magical. It exists, and I wouldn't want it any other way. Thanks again Kira for writing this. I'm going to share your little essay on my Kirk/Spock group on facebook. I'm sure it will be quite interesting.
Date: 12/23/2013 7:06 AM Title: none
I'm a bisexual-leaning-towards lesbian woman, so two men don't usually turn me on. I'm not all that into men in general, and I usually find male genitals odd and unarousing. Obviously, I have no objections to homosexuality in general, since I'm 80% gay, myself, but M/M slash isn't something that I would normally choose to read.
So why do I read K/S, then? Well, Spock is one of the very few men I'm attracted to, but I'm wildly attracted to him. :-) (Forget big cocks; it's big brains that turn me on. Not to mention Spock's shining goodness, his incredible loyalty, his breathtaking competence, and the sense that the poor guy could really use some affection and appreciation.) And if I want to read about him making love with someone, who is there? I've never liked Chapel, possibly because even the actress who played her didn't really like Chapel. :-) I like Uhura a lot, but a little bit of flirting in "The Man Trap" and "Charlie X" isn't really enough to build a relationship on. If I look at Spock, it's clear that his love is all for Kirk.
I have nothing against Kirk -- he's a fine starship captain and a great character; you can't have TOS without him -- but he's not my type at all. But he's clearly Spock's type. :-) And if I want some Spock, Kirk is really the only plausible person to put with him.
So there you have it -- someone who isn't turned on by the idea of two men together, who isn't all that into men in general, but who still reads K/S. Because that's where the love is. ;-)
Date: 10/20/2010 4:05 PM Title: none
After reading this piece and the reviews left by others I suddenly decided to stop lurking in this magnificent site and create an account in order to express my opinion. (actually I'm italian so I dont' know if my english will be comprensible, please be gentle)
I've to say that my first encounter with slash (or yaoi in general) was in high school when my anime/manga obession started. I found myseld in a general fanfiction's archive and while I was searching for stories with my favourite character I found a slash one. My first reaction was surprise and incredulity, I've to say, I went straight to my sister and started blurting out how much I was bewildered by this (well..I've also have to say that I was very young at that time and I wasn't shocked in a negative way, just..shocked) Then I returned to the site and finished to read it. Pratically two minutes after I was a slash fan...(and if I have to be earnest I must say that before reading this fiction I thought that something was wrong with me for finding Remus and Sirius like a cute couple...)
So I understand that could be suddenly disconcerting to think about two people involved in a romantic way if you had not think aobut them in that way before. But after the initial surprise I cannot understand why someone could bash a couple only because they're of the same gender! Actually I think that it's a lot more strange to ship people that don't have anything in common or neither screen time together, but they're different in gender.
So I was so very wounded when three close friends of mine started to say sometimes ago that omosexuality in general was repulsive. I nearly fell out of my chair because of this (we were in a bar talking about various subjects: homosexuality was discussed for being the recent focus of the media): they were so adamant about it that I started to wonder how people could be friendly and intelligent in some ways and so close minded and gratuitous cruel in others. They were deaf to my argumentantions and I suddenly was glad to have never talk with them about my bisexual orientations.
As us italians say "the world is good because is variegated" but this concept for me doesn't apply to homophobic people. It's like they're saying that you're a disgustive being only because you exist. And I that I foolish thougt that in the actual generations racism doesn't exist to this extent
Date: 08/15/2010 8:00 PM Title: none
Well, as an almost-year-old slasher, I might be able to give you some answer on the why. As my beliving appareance are not important, especially for love. And gender to me is just another appeareance, therefore, non-important. Gender is just another genetic condition as the color of the hair or the eyes. Love transcends that.
Many times, woman find slash appealing for the exact same reason you quote. Thinking of man having sex is hot, having two men having sex is hotter.
Also, those who believes that appeareance is not important, are most likely to believe that a solid romantic relationship must start with friendship. One wants to find a best friend in our partner. K/S already has the friendship, and they are to people that completel fit each other.
Another important point, most based om pshicology, is projection. One usually have a character that would like to oneself. But as one is not part of its world, the logic thing is grab the most similar character to oneself and pair it with our 'love-interest'.
This last two thing also fits with heterosexual pairings.
In my case, there is a lot of projection. I had always looked a 'best friend' in a partner. And after having paired 3 similar ships: House/Wilson, Holmes/Watson and lately Kirk/Spock, I found a big paralelism that might be the indicator of something.
Actually, after it I found out I were bisexual (because of my believing of appareances are not important) and that I might be in love with my best friend (and that remains in might because I'm unsure if its real or I'm obssesing to much with slash). And yes, homophobic is annoying. And non-homophobic is also. I have a friend who knows about my slash and even though she doesn't understand it she accepts it. But she keeps saying 'You're crazy!'. And she gets annoyed everytime I insist too much in the House/Wilson.
Maybe we have to wait till the 23rd century, when sexuality is not more a hot topic!! XD
Date: 02/09/2010 9:44 PM Title: none
Needless to say that I agree with you on the subject of love being universal. But the reason why this particular essay appealed to me is because just the other day I was struck by the same feeling. My friend (who is male, and we'll call him Zach) was looking at the pictures on my phone and saw my 'hidden' stash of k/s pictures. I have an extensive collection of those and each of them captures their love perfectly. He loved it (and let's get this clear, he's as straight as they come) and he started transferring some of them on his own phone. Then, my other friend walked in (who is also male, and we'll call him Jay) and took one look at what we were doing. He was disgusted and quite vocal about it too. Zach and I started defending homosexuality in general, being propagators of the whole universal-love thing, and things just went downhill from there.
I may never speak to Jay about this again, but right now it's like a huge pink elephant in the room. We're studiously ignoring the subject but it still reflects on our friendship. I'm just not sure I can be friends with someone who is that closed-minded. We never talked about this before, and honestly, I hadn't given it any thought - I actually thought he'd be like my other friends who are all okay with the idea of homosexuality, even if it isn't exactly their cup of tea.
It was disheartening to find that even in my carefully nit-picked circle of friends (and I don't just befriend anyone, since I'm fairly introverted and closed off) there is at least one who is intolerant of same-sex relationships. I honestly hope that someday I (or my children) will be able to take for granted that everyone around us is okay with that sort of thing.
And now that I've indulged my self-pity, I'll kindly shut up after I thank you for this essay. Good to know there are others who feel indignant on behalf of same-sex couples.
Date: 12/24/2009 1:57 AM Title: none
And I can relate to what Dahlia wrote, yeah: how do you communicate your interest in such things, to others? Like, oh hi... and by the way, this is what I'm into... They'd never accept you and it feels like the support you do manage to find is still a little bit underground... like a circle, all women who read/write the same thing... But I guess that's the world we live in - still, I don't want to give up hope for finding a way to communicate, because it has been my experience that these things do appeal to a wide variety of people, on a human level - that is their very attraction for me, in the first place. The fact that I can cross many "final frontiers" through it.
And yes, Dahlia wrote exactly how it "happens", the way we get "transported" to another reality, through the turn-on. This might be escapist in nature, but at the same time it connects us more deeply with our own feelings, which are a source of self-confidence in the very real world.
As much as I've been studying slash all my life, I'm still amazed by every new discovery when I come across something so surprising as my heart pounding in my chest, and the irresistible urge to grin... So yes, that connection with one's own feelings is very important, and to be treasured.
Date: 12/24/2009 1:44 AM Title: none
Hey everyone. I must say this page on Slash Essays etc is very important to me, for I get the chance to find out how others feel about these issues. So thanks for writing how you feel. I have felt a great attraction to slash since I was very young, so I always sought to understand this, because it seemed so miraculous to me (that feeling) - and I believe that laying it down to issues from the real world is mostly off-track. I was very young, as stated (perhaps 6 years old?), so I could not possibly have felt this way because of my not finding acceptance from a man... But I still felt the amazing feelings when I knew a True Pair from the rest. I believe it is a much deeper issue, to do with the soul, and spiritual insight (although not everyone believes in these things, and I respect that, but we have to communicate in some way). I find these things multilayered to begin with (NOT just "homosexual") - so underneath all those layers there must be a different core. Don't allow yourselves to be dominated (in anger and confusion) by the systems of thinking which are currently in place, because then you'd only be playing their own game. I find that the miraculous feelings I experience have always made me more and more aware of equality principles, and many other such insights - which I'm always happy to discuss.
Thanks for commenting and letting me know that you enjoyed reading my essay. It's naturally a deeper thing that just the mere gender issue, I agree. But it's hard to shake free of a society's conditioning and look beyond it. Thanks for making me think a little outside the box.
Date: 08/12/2009 7:02 AM Title: none
Today i was saying to myself god doesn't anybody else feel the love they share. Am i the only one? Apparently not... Thank you thank you Kira for putting this up. My 1st K/S story i read was about a month ago Shelter by Leslie Fish. When i began to read this something just came over me. A scene of love between them was coming up and i was so into it that was gone from this reality to theirs. My husband and my kids who were in a different room were non-existent. My heart was pounding in my chest...i was grinning ear to ear. What is happening to me i said to myself...i'm getting turned on. This is too good. Kirk and Spock complete each other period. I DO NOT CARE IF THEY BOTH HAVE DICKS LOVE IS LOVE and god how i wish the homophobes out there realize that. I recently made a male friend who likes Star TREK but cannot understand my fascination about these 2. It bothers him. I guess it is hard for people to understand what we are feeling. How do you start up a conversation with a new friend. Hi how are you...what do you for a living...what are you interest...reading oh...what do like....romance..love oh like Danielle Steele....no i said and u are stuck because if you would continue the conversation the person would probably leave and not ever want to speak to you. Homosexuality scares people where for me it fascinates me. Two men together holding each other close...molding their bodies together...feeling each others skin...and when they kiss with a little tongue just brings you over the edge.. I'm not even at the shagging part and i'm so turned on. WHY? BECAUSE THEY LOVE EACH OTHER AND THAT IS WHAT MATTERS. Again mille merci Kira...je suis tres contente. DAHLIA
Thanks for your comment and I am so glad you enjoyed reading the essay. I have to agree with you. It isn't only their physical relationship that is a turn-on. A thought just crossed my mind - what if it is that we can meld two of the best qualites of female love and male love in these stories. The fact that there are mainly women writing them makes for a pretty big certainty that the emotional impact is described as a woman would feel it, and then there's the strength of males incorporated in that. Who knows? But let's face it, the sex is good to read about.
Date: 07/13/2009 6:43 AM Title: none
I can't understand homophobes either. I mean, before I got interested in slash in general, before I'd even seen star trek, I hardly knew that much about romance or homosexuality at all. It had never really been a subject that came up much, and as such, I'd never seen any controversy towards it. So, when it first came to my attention, it was completely new. And, as such, when one makes a new discovery, they find that their curiosity will compell them to explore it. I made my own, mostly uninfluenced decisions about slash, and found it completely acceptable. It's love no matter how you look at it.
Love is like any other emotion, it's indescriminant of race, culture, and even gender. If you can hate someone of the same, and the opposite gender, why can't you love someone of the same, and opposite gender? It's not wrong. It's entirely right. Love is exactly what the world needs more of. People who can't understand that act that way because they grew up in a little box with people who also couldn't understand, and because of that influence, ended up that way too. It's a neverending circle. One that if we ever expect to live in a peaceful, accepting world, will have to be broken.
As smart as people are, they're incredibly narrow and stupid too. For every genius, there's ten idiots. Stupid people scare me. They really do. Because you don't know what they can do, based on their skewed, narrow view of the world. It's people like that that kill because of hate. They hate because they don't understand, and that hatred prompts them to do terrible, terrible things. It's stupid and unfair. And I hate it. Because I don't know what to do about it. What I CAN do about it. You can feel really helpless sometimes, when you hear about the kinds of things people will do to homosexuals or people of other colors. It makes you sad and angry and frustrated all at the same time.
Why can't people just understand each other? Why can't they stop hurting each other? Humans are a highly illogical race.
I really hope that sometime soon, maybe the hatred will begin to lessen. I have to look back a hundred, two hundred years, and see the vast progress we've made since then. It might take another 500 years, but maybe by then, things like discrimination and hostility will be a thing of the past. A foolish dream? Maybe so. But if the vulcans did it, maybe we can too.
Thanks for reading and commenting, and your questions and thoughts are certainly valid. In this day and age, there is still bigotry and hatred toward gays is running rampant, even killing gays simply because of their orientation, we do need a way to get this matter more accepted everywhere. I think slash is one tool we can use and also standing up for gays in the real world. Or any queer for that matter whether they're lesbian, gay, bi, trans or whatever.
Date: 06/12/2009 6:40 PM Title: none
Hey ^^ Nice Comment on the slash topic.
I think that you are right in a way. However it maybe the fact that, however much our man/boyfriends etc. love us, at this point in time: They do not see us as equals.
They can try and there are a lot of good men out there who do a neat job of it, but most of them still don't.
As I said, I'm sure that if they are close to us, they do love us. However, they can't see us as equals, because either of their leassons in childhood or society in general, which is much improved, but still not there, yet.
So, when you have a possibble relationship, were both partners are equal and loving and trusting, it is somewhat of a turn-on for us.
Slash is written mostly by women, which indicates that slash gives them something that reality cannot. And Spock and Kirk are equal, because they are both men. Wheter one is Captain and the other his subordinate, does not matter. They both respect each other on the same level. Neither man is the 'damsel-in-distress', since both are activly involved in all their missions and therefore encounter an equal amount of danger.
So, besides the title of Captain, nothing really gives the image that one is considered weaker than the other.
And I hate to say it, but we are physically weaker than most men, which is a huge reason why our male counter parts are unable to see us as equal.
I think most of them still, feel that women need to be protected or think that we can't protect our selfs. Maybe they don't even think it conciously, but on some level they still feel it.
A love story between Spock and Kirk, gives plenty of oppurtunity to explore the absence of mentioned feelings. Also the opportunity to explore those thoughts further, if one of the two is asigned the 'feminin' role.
It also gives us a chance to exact controle over a desireable male(like Spock and Kirk) in a way, we don't have otherwise.
No matter what, we can never experience what it feels like to have complete dominace over a man we desire, not matter what, because we do not posess the bodily limb for that experience. We always submit at some point.
So being able to have one of them submit on our terms (even though only in writing) can be a real turn-on.
Also there is the possibility of identifying our selfs with one of them, which attracts us. That also provides interesting opportunities.
And like you said: The thought of two attractive men together is just generaly hot for us. Since there are enough men, who like the image of two pretty girls going at it, it would only make sence. It's actually petty much the same thing, isn't it?
Alright....that was all I have to say at this point. Maybe I can think of more later? XD
Again. Nive bit you wrote. I like it.
Thanks for your comments and for taking the time to read my essay. I find one tidbit you write in your comment to be very interesting. It could easily be that Kirk would be considered the stronger or the superior in ther relationship, because he is Captain, but then there's the fact of Spock's physical strength, his intelligence and his emotional control that kind of make him stronger in other aspects, which is why they complete each other so well. Interesting.
Date: 06/12/2009 6:14 AM Title: none
For a moment when I was reading this, I thought it was something I had written. It was almost like looking in a mirror. Everything you said is just how I feel. I'm sort of "in the closet" about my love for Kirk/Spock, just because I know people are disgusted by homosexuality, and, like you said, the idea that I and many others believe Star Trek characters actually have (God forbid!) emotional understanding, feeling, and the capability to love. Gene Rodenberry mentioned that he intentionally wrote Kirk and Spock so that they would complete each other. That is love, right there, and I'm proud to say I support it, because love is love no matter how you look at it. Being a straight female, slash does turn me on more than het. Like you, I have no idea why. Thanks for this.
It's funny how motivations can be so similar for many of us. Thank you for commenting on my essay and it's great to hear that others feel like I do. And as for Star Trek characters and their sexuality, I think that especially during TNG, DS9 and VOY there was a lot of clinical attitude towards sex. Apart from very few exceptions, like Tom/B'Elanna, T'Pol/Trip and Worf/Dax there wasn't a whole lot of exploration when it comes to emotional relationships at all. And despite the fact that it probably wasn't Gene Roddenberry's intention, the way that Kirk and Spock completed one another is about the most emotionally appealing pairing in Star Trek, bar none.
Date: 05/28/2009 1:23 AM Title: none
Very well articulated.
I know that one reason I prefer slash to het is that when I read het, I wind up comparing myself to the female character and thinking things like I'd never do that or stuff like that, whereas with slash I can just enjoy it.
Thank you. Yes, reading or writing het makes it very easy to turn it into a Mary-Sue, whether intentionally or not, so I get where you're coming from. Thank you for your comment.
Date: 05/26/2009 6:50 AM Title: none
Hey, there, I just wanted to compliment you on your essay. I think that we've all had to deal with the negatives of bigotry and the acrid sting of closed mindedness and I wanted to thank you for putting up an essay about it. Every thing that we write helps to bridge the gap between ignorance and understanding.
I agree with the first part of your essay, about how simply loving can't be wrong. I've never been able to understand how people seem to pick and choose or leave and discard potential loves based on silly qualifiactions like race, gender, religion or height, for pete's sake. I wish that more people understood that love is bigger then all those little things.
And for the end part of your essay, I just want to offer you a tidbit form another essay that I read for my other fav fandom. I can't remember it exactly but it went along the lines that: As women, we find pleasure in slash becuase it's something that we can never attain. We can't be with a man as a man.
I know that it sounds a little feminist but I feel this is true. There's an equality in a slash couple that isn't there in real life heterosexuality. Slash and fanfiction in general makes a great escape from that delima.
First off, thanks for the kind words about the essay, and second. I think you, or whoever wrote the other essay, found another good explanation. There is an equality between Jim and Spock that I find very appealing, which is perhaps one of the reasons I find stories where Jim is portrayed as weak - not just physically weaker but also emotionally fragile ... or that's not it either, I don't like stories where Jim is portrayed as feminine. That goes for Spock as well. I like their maleness, and it's what they are in the series. Changing that changes the characters and turn them into something they are not, and what they are on the show is what attracts me to them and their dynamic in the first place ...